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Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

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Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط yazid » 03 اوت 2013, 18:17

Apologies, I don't speak/understand Persian so I have to do this in English. I wasn't sure who to contact but I got in touch with 1 of the admins Pooria (Thanks Pooria for your assistance and pointing me in the right direction) and he advised me of forum members farschad and dma8hm1334 who have recently been very active in the continued development of the XB fonts. Hopefully either of you folks are willing to help me. :blush:

I've noticed some inconsistent behaviours with 1 of the XB fonts (XB Yas in particular, but I believe XB Zar may behave similarly), especially with regards to a meem+noon ligature when there is a meem iqlab with Quranic text (please refer to 2 attached images for comparison).

I hope someone can shed some light into why this is happening. Hopefully there is some kind of simple fix for this, perhaps with an update to some type configurations within the font.

Edit:
I'd also like to add that there is an overlapping issue when a dhamma tanween meets the meem iqlab (please refer to relevant attachment)
پیوست‌ها
dhamma tanween.jpg
Small meem overlapping dhamma tanween
dhamma tanween.jpg (13.81 KiB) - بازدید 14368 بار
Incorrect Ligature.jpg
Meem and noon connecting incorrectly with meem iqlab
Incorrect Ligature.jpg (6.13 KiB) - بازدید 14374 بار
Correct Ligature.jpg
Meem and noon connecting correctly
Correct Ligature.jpg (5.09 KiB) - بازدید 14374 بار
آخرین ویرایش توسط Pooria Azimi on 09 اوت 2013, 19:40, ویرایش شده در 2.
دلیل: added [left] BBCode
yazid
 
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تاریخ عضویت: 03 اوت 2013, 07:23

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط dma8hm1334 » 04 اوت 2013, 12:18

Hello

This problem arises because the glyph "Arabic Small High Meem Isolated Form" with unicode character
code "06E2" is not defined in X Series 2 fonts which include XBYas. So your typesetter borrows this
glyph from another font and usually in such cases, the result(s) is/are unpredictable.

Thanks
dma8hm1334
 
پست‌ها : 136
تاریخ عضویت: 02 فوریه 2013, 05:03

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط yazid » 07 اوت 2013, 19:08

Ah I see, that explains it. Would you happen to know how I may go about fixing this? Perhaps using a font editor and defining the glyph?
آخرین ویرایش توسط Pooria Azimi on 09 اوت 2013, 19:40, ویرایش شده در 2.
دلیل: added [left] BBCode
yazid
 
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تاریخ عضویت: 03 اوت 2013, 07:23

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط dma8hm1334 » 07 اوت 2013, 19:40

Hello

yazid نوشته است:[نمایش]
Perhaps using a font editor and defining the glyph?

This is one way to resolve this dilemma. The other depends on the typesetter you are using.

Thanks
dma8hm1334
 
پست‌ها : 136
تاریخ عضویت: 02 فوریه 2013, 05:03

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط Behnam » 07 اوت 2013, 23:16

In theory, any 'foreign' character (for the font in use) within the text, can interrupt the 'contextualization' instructions, more likely with AAT technology than OpenType.
But in the examples you provide, again in theory, this shouldn't occur because the 'foreign' character is applied AFTER a contextualized pattern not within. So I think as dma8ham1334 mentioned, the typesetter may have a big role in this.
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Behnam
 
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تاریخ عضویت: 27 مه 2004, 04:44
محل سکونت: کانادا

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط yazid » 09 اوت 2013, 09:05

Ah, that's interesting. I'm getting these results both on a Mac (the screenshots are from TextEdit) as well as on a native iOS app. Would any of you happen to have any experience with dealing with these?
آخرین ویرایش توسط Pooria Azimi on 09 اوت 2013, 19:40, ویرایش شده در 2.
دلیل: added [left] BBCode
yazid
 
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تاریخ عضویت: 03 اوت 2013, 07:23

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط Behnam » 09 اوت 2013, 19:20

So in that case it is likely the AAT environment. I have to test and reproduce the bug myself when I get a chance to see if I can figure out something.
نماد کاربر
Behnam
 
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تاریخ عضویت: 27 مه 2004, 04:44
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پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط Behnam » 13 اوت 2013, 08:23

Okay I got a chance to play with this issue for a bit.
I could replicate your bug. It's definitely an AAT (Apple Advanced Typography) issue but it's not a font issue. It's a MacOS issue. I don't know why it happens. But I'm pretty sure I know how it happens and what it actually happens. So there is a way to avoid it. (as long as the insertion is not in the middle of the contextualized word)
You most likely insert these characters via 'Character Viewer'. This is where I could replicate the bug. When you find the character, DON'T DOUBLE CLICK ON IT. Instead, look at the right panel where it shows available fonts that contain that character, choose one of them and double click on it. It will be inserted to the text without decomposing the contextualized word!
When you double click on a desired character in the main characters chart, you are asking the system to choose its default font for that character. For Arabic is Geeza Pro. The strange thing is that if you go to 'font variation' and choose the same Geeza Pro, it doesn't decompose the word! but if it is double clicked in the main characters chart it does.
The bug is this: your injected character (from the chart) transforms the adjacent character to the same font from which the character is injected. Meaning that in your samples, ف and ن are no longer from XB fonts but from Geeza pro! Characters from two different fonts can not 'contextualize' and connect to each-other.
The other thing is that since these characters don't belong to the font you are using, they won't sit properly on the character because the font has no control over the character that doesn't belong to it. So you have an unwanted advantage in having to go to 'font variation' because you can try different fonts for the same character to see which one sits better for your font.
But generally speaking, X Series 2 fonts are not designed for koranic typesetting. Thay have an impressive support for composite vowels but they are not intended for aesthetic typesetting, they are intended to allow the font to handle any text you throw at it (if used in a browser for example, you never know what the font will encounter!)
The attached picture shows how I inserted those characters to XB Yas without decomposing the word, How system font that contains all those characters handles the text, and a test with Arabic Typesetting font which is better designed for koranic expression. Arabic Typesetting is an OpenType font. TextEdit and Mac OS 'translate' OpenType to Apple own AAT technology. So you see that it doesn't handle well this translation from complex OpenType instructions. The other one is the same Arabic Typesetting written in Mellel that supports OpenType natively. It is handled much better. But if you don't like how Geeza Pro does koranic text, in OS and iOS (in AAT technology) you are pretty much out of luck!
پیوست‌ها
koranic.jpg
نماد کاربر
Behnam
 
پست‌ها : 3534
تاریخ عضویت: 27 مه 2004, 04:44
محل سکونت: کانادا

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط yazid » 19 اوت 2013, 08:24

Wow thanks for taking the time to really get into it and finding out what's going on. That's a rather in-depth analysis. What I'm doing in my app is simply outputting full Uthmani Quran text with a selected embedded font, and since I found the X Series 2 fonts I felt they were very simple yet elegant, so I actually don't do any manual text insertion which I suppose means I can't avoid the bug.

On a related note, since you are more well-versed in the subject of Arabic fonts, would you happen to know of a suitable font that you can recommend which renders Quran text well?
در کل 1 بار ویرایش شده. اخرین ویرایش توسط AliGhz در 20 اوت 2013, 15:55.
دلیل: added [left] BBCode
yazid
 
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تاریخ عضویت: 03 اوت 2013, 07:23

پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط Behnam » 20 اوت 2013, 06:39

I'm not well-versed. I know few things by experience! and those are about fonts not koran! I think in your 'casual' workflow in iOS and MacOS, your best bet -technically- is Geeza Pro. But almost all professional Arabic fonts (that normally you have to pay for them) have a webpage in which you can study their capabilities. However, they are all made with OpenType technology so for your workflow, they will be all 'translated' to Apple technology. Therefore they better be not too refined. Mac OS may miss something in translation.X Series 2 can also do the job partially.
Your bug was produced in a different way (copy& paste almost) this is actually a good news because it shows a 'consistency' in this buggy behaviour of OS text engine. You should report it to Apple. I think it's fixable.
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Behnam
 
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تاریخ عضویت: 27 مه 2004, 04:44
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پاسخ: Help: XB font meem iqlab issue with Quranic text

پستتوسط saeidk » 20 اوت 2013, 10:45

amiri font
http://www.amirifont.org/
KFGQPC Uthman Taha Naskh
http://fonts.qurancomplex.gov.sa/
nabi font
http://www.Parsfont.com
Neirizi font
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تاریخ عضویت: 17 دسامبر 2005, 19:20
محل سکونت: ایران-تهران



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